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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was keep. Keep 8 / Delete 5... Lucky made an agreement to Katefan0, which could be assumed as a keep. The author expressed a transwiki to Wikitravel, which did not appear in any of the votes after the nomination. -- AllyUnion (talk) 06:43, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

55 bar

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This is a listing for one of the many jazz clubs in NYC, but I don't think this is a historically important jazz club which would qualify as being Wikipedia article-worthy. This bar listing would be better served at Wikitravel. — Brim 09:14, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)

  • Delete, article does not establish notability. Megan1967 09:32, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. There are thousands of bars in New York. A Google search for this one ("55 Bar" "New York") finds just 14 hits. — Asbestos | Talk 12:30, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
    • I get 6,000 hits for that Google... sjorford:// 16:59, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, Not notable. Inter 15:35, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep fairly notable, it's been around for 86 years and is notable within the NY jazz scene. Certainly not just another corner pub. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 15:56, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)
  • KEEP! It is an extremely popular historical jazz bar in NYC and in fact used to be a speakeasy during Prohibition. Try Googling "55 bar" NYC and you'll see lots more hits than 14. Katefan0 16:51, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Wikipedia isn't a guide to NYC bars and jazz clubs. And, in the context of the history of Jazz, it doesn't appear that this club is an important enough venue that an Encyclopedia of Jazz would have an article on it, assuming that Wikipedia is an Encyclopedia of Jazz. --BM 18:07, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
    • I don't think you're correct about that. AllAboutJazz, a Jazz website, mentions 55 Bar some 500+ times. See http://www.google.com/custom?sitesearch=allaboutjazz.com&domains=allaboutjazz.com&q=55+bar Also, a Google search for "55 Bar" +jazz brings up 7,690 hits. Clearly it's notable within a jazz context. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 18:17, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)
    • I did those kind of searches too. Sure its a venue for jazz, which means that jazz musicians do gigs there. These are announced on allaboutjazz.com, which produces Google hits. But to be significant, I'd want to see some evidence that this is a place which is more than just another venue. Is it the place where important jazz musicians got their start, for example? Have the owners of it been impresarios who were important in encouraging the development of new styles. Any place that is in business as a jazz venue has to have enough local notability to attract paying customers; but that doesn't make it encyclopedically notable. There must be 30 jazz clubs in NYC. What makes this one stand out, apart from cheap beer and a low cover charge? No change of vote. Notability still not established. --BM 19:35, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Weak keep. The article does not establish notability by itself but there are plenty of hits on Google. Cleanup and expand the article. Carrp | Talk 18:13, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
    • Clearly the article needs some work, but I remind everyone that the bar for inclusion is not the current shape of the article, but whether it has the potential to become encyclopedic. Katefan0 18:40, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, helpful. Wyss 19:07, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Agree with Katefan. Sub-stubbish as is, but certainly serviceable. Notability established, too. - Lucky 6.9 22:27, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • keep. Mikkalai 07:14, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Neutral. Current article does not establish notability, number of Google hits is just par for a live music venue. If someone wants to demonstrate notability, they should do so in the article. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:05, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)
  • Extreme keep, agree with Katefan0. —RaD Man (talk) 09:39, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, rather famous. James F. (talk) 14:52, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, famous if you know about such things. Of course, if a bunch of deletionists haven't heard of it, it must go, musn't it ;) Dan100 21:41, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)
    • Now now. I am a deletionist, and you see how I have voted. Katefan0 22:13, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)
    • If the inclusionists would take the trouble to mention why its famous, apart from citing Google hits, which are not indicative of the importance of a jazz venue, the deletionists might not be saying delete. Deletionists don't want to delete the Wikipedia, you know; they just want to have articles that are about significant, important, notable, subjects. You know, like an encyclopedia. --BM 22:32, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. I'd be very willing to vote keep, but googling and vague generalities about importance are not enough to do so. Please establish notability in the article. Tuf-Kat 03:31, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

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