Talk:Willibrord

edits

Why has User:JackLynch discarded the recently edited, carefully worked upon text that supplanted this old E.B. text? Can it be retrieved? What's up with this? Wetman 14:19, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I have no idea what your talking about. I spent a couple hours writing up a new page on willibrord, only to find there already was one. So I dumped what I had written in here and went to sleep. I come back today and find this. now I have 3 artcles to merge instead of 2. Joy. Jack 21:29, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Hm. And I found what I'd written was gone and text-dump from Encyclopaedia Britannica had been substituted for it. How does Willibrord stand now with you, JackLynch? Add any detail you feel is missing. Wetman 23:11, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Wow, tahts bizarre. Maybe we both edited this amazingly obscure article simultaneously, and narrowly escaped an edit conflict? I donno, lets not worry about it. I'm merging all content, let me know what you think. Jack 00:56, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)

old article

Saint Willibrord (c.657 - c.738) was an English missionary, known as the Apostle to the Frisians.

His father, Wilgils, an Angle or, as Alcuin styles him, a Saxon, of Northumbria, withdrew from the world and constructed for himself a little oratory dedicated to St Andrew. The king and nobles of the district endowed him with estates till he was at last able to build a church, over which Alcuin afterwards ruled. Willibrord was sent to be brought up at Ripon at an early age, where he must doubtless have come under the influence of Wilfrid. About the age of twenty his desire for learning drew him to Ireland (c. 679), which had been a center of learning in northwestern Europe. Here he stayed for twelve years, enjoying the society of Ecgberht and Wihtberht, from the former of whom he received his commission to missionary work among the North-German tribes. In his thirty-third year (c. 690) he started with twelve companions for the mouth of the Rhine. These districts were then occupied by the Frisians under their king, Rathbod, who gave allegiance to Pippin of Herstal. Pippin befriended him and sent him to Rome, where he was consecrated archbishop (with the name Clemens) by Pope Sergius I on St Cecilia's Day, 696. Bede says that when he returned to Frisia his see was fixed in Utrecht (Ultrajectum). He spent several years in founding churches and missionizing, till his success tempted him to pass into other districts. From Denmark he carried away thirty boys to be brought up among the Franks. On his return he was wrecked on the holy island of Fosite (currently named Heligoland), where his disregard of the pagan superstition nearly cost him his life. When Pippin died, Willibrord found a supporter in his son Charles Martel. He was assisted for three years in his missionary work by Saint Boniface, who, however, was not willing to become his successor.

He was still living when Bede wrote in 731. A passage in one of Boniface's letters to Pope Stephen III speaks of his preaching to the Frisians for fifty years, apparently reckoning from the time of his consecration. This would fix the date of Willibrord's death in 738; and, as Alcuin tells us he was eighty-one years old when he died, it may be further inferred that Willibrord was born in 657--a theory on which all the dates given above are based, though it must be added that they are substantially confirmed by the incidental notices of Bede. The day of his death was November 6, and his body was buried in the monastery of Echternach, near Trier, which he had himself founded. In Alcuin's time (around 800) miracles were reported to be still wrought at his tomb.

The chief authorities for Willibrord's life are Alcuin's Vita Willibrordi, both in prose and in verse, and Bede's Historia Ecclesiatica v. cc. 9-17. See also Eddius's Vita Wilfridi, and J. Mabillon, Annales ordinis sancti Benedicti, lib. xviii.

This article uses text from the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica.

his father

was his father wilgils, or st hilgis, or what? it appears we have contradictory translations of this guys name. Jack 01:04, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)

The Dancing Procession at Echternach ?

Wow, you did an AMAZING job on that dancing procession stuff. Unbelievable. Thing is, its now so big and thorough, I'd like to give it its own page, if you don't mind? Jack 06:18, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)

One reason to keep the Dancing Procession connected with Willibrord is that it is not the only connection to pre-Christian culture through him. Throughout Luxemburg, I understand, there are numerous examples of "St. Willibrord's Well" and "St. Willibrord's Spring." Such pagan springs (cf. Melusine) were similarly Christianized all through the British Isles (if one may still use that expression). Wetman 14:22, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)

wow, neat, great work & research! You make me proud to be a wiki! Sam Spade 12:28, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Dear author, I'm amazed that the new theory about the pagan origins of the dancing procession have already reached the english version (I added it to the german version). If you want more details about the origins and if you understand german, have a look at the article "Der Ursprung der Echternacher Springprozession" in "Die Abtei Echternach" by Jean Schroeder, Henri Trauffler, Camillo Ferrari. You could also add the fact at the end that the dancing procession was also forbidden during german occupation in WWII. PitterB (german wikipedia).

All of the Above?

The Wikipedia articles for Plechelm and Willibrord each claim them as the patron saint of the Netherlands. The Wikipedia article for Nicholas merely claims him for Amsterdam, but it used to claim the whole of the Netherlands, and web pages elsewhere still do. I'm thinkin' that there should be a cage match. —SlamDiego 18:41, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Illustration

The illustration at right was uploaded to Commons, where I noticed it. It was simply labelled "old book". It's a C13-C14 Netherlandish? French? manuscript illumination that was used on an album cover for the music to the Officinium Sancti Willibrordi, but we need to have some better information before it's added to the article. Anyone? --Wetman (talk) 22:18, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

it is a 10th century german manuscript illumination, painted in Trier, which was part of a manuscript from Echternach. Today it kept in Paris 8Biblothéque Nationale, lat. 10510) -- 80.139.29.136 (talk) 22:00, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

"Carolingian"?

Some of the phrasing in this article regarding the status of the Austrasian mayoral family is a bit misleading. The article alludes to "a Carolingian-sponsored mission into Frisia," but surely there were no "Carolingians" before Charles Martel! I suspect "Peppinid" or "Arnulfing" might be a better word to use. Moreover, the article describes Peppin as "the Frankish king." Not so! The Frankish realm was still nominally ruled by the Merovingian kings in Willibrord's lifetime, however much de facto power the mayoral dynasty in fact wielded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.220.6 (talk) 05:00, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Radbod's Baptism

Can someone provide the original source for the anecdote about Radbod refusing baptism because he would rather spend eternity with his ancestors?

Vita Vulframni episcopi Senonici, (MGH, page. 668) P.s. the baptism scene is originally not with Willibrord, but with Wulfram of Sens. The story is highly likely fictional. Sonty567 (talk) 18:01, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Saint Willibrord.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:47, 27 June 2019 (UTC)