Talk:Birds of Prey (TV series)

Actors

Okay, I read this kind of quick, but it appears the names of the people who acted the charactres aren't listed. It seems they should be and usually are on other pages having to do with TV shows & films. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ManOnPipes (talk • contribs) 17:42, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Page history

Note: Between October 27 2004 and November 29 2004, this topic was reduced to a section on the Birds of Prey page. See that page's edit history for user contributions during that period. --Paul A 05:51, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Why? The TV show is something completely seperate from the comic. There's no reason the comic and TV show should all be on the same page, especially if the intention is to expand the information on the comic book in the future. It would be like featuring the Superman comic and Smallville both on the same page. As such, I've moved everything back to this page. -- Redfarmer 11:56, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I don't understand your objection, which appears to me to have no connection to what I said. --Paul A 02:43, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I don't understand why you want the comic book and the tv show only have one page. It doesn't make sense to me as they're completely seperate projects and the TV show was only loosely based on the comic book. It's the same difference as between Catwoman and Catwoman (movie): they're really the same in name and minor details only. I also think the Birds of Prey page should be expanded in the future to include more information on the comic, which would make the information on the TV show even more out of place. -- Redfarmer 15:56, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Say what? I don't want the comic book and the TV series to have only one page; I agree with you that they ought to be separate -- in fact, as you know, I suggested separating them at Talk:Birds of Prey a while before you actually did it. --Paul A 02:30, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Oops...my apologies...I thought you were implying you were the one who moved it all to one page. Guess I've made my newbie error now. Sorry about that. Redfarmer 02:37, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Similarities section

I deleted a new section listing apparent similarities and differences between the comic book and TV series as I felt it was rather weak, especially since the only two differences listed were in fact erroneous. As stated in the article itself, Black Canary is not a teenager in this series (although she was originally going to be); instead, she is the mother of the teenage girl who works with the team. Similarly, Huntress is the daughter of Batman and Catwoman in some versions of DC Comics continuity. All that left behind was a statement that in the comic and TV show Huntress, Black Canary and Oracle are a team ... which is again wrong since Black Canary is not a member of the team in this series (although she is clearly a former member). I think a list of similarities and differences is still possible, but it needs to be thought out a bit more. 23skidoo 23:52, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ratings did not cause BoP to be cancelled

According to Hans Tobeason, the co-executive producer and writer of Birds of Prey: "Perhaps the other most common question was some variation of "Why was BOP cancelled?" This one is somewhat more difficult to answer (not to mention I didn't make the decision, and I wasn't in the room where the decision was made). First of all, the ratings were not stellar. They were not abysmal, either. Ratings alone were not the primary reason for cancellation. The process of making a TV show is very complex - there are many different entities involved, often with differing agendas. In the case of BOP, there were an unusually large number of, for lack of a better word, factions involved. In no particular order - the network (The WB), the studio (Warner Bros. Television), Tollin/Robbins, the writers, the production staff, and the cast. It was not always the case that all of these entities were on the same page, as it were. In the end, the network decided (I suppose) that the effort it was taking to try and get the show they had in mind on the air was not worth it." This comes from http://www.birdsofpreyonline.com/news.php?article=427

In other words, the reason for cancellation was not ratings alone. The ratings were not abysmal and they were not cancel level. This is a myth. On top of that, the ratings were actually going up when the series was cancelled, from what I understand. CureWhite

Furthermore, this page implies that EVERYONE hated it. This is NOT true. I recall the Orlando Sentinel featuring a note in its TV listings section the day of the finale's airing as saying it would be something like "A fine finish to a brilliant series". There were some TV critics, at the very least, who loved it, and I actually knew quite a few people at the time it was airing who really liked it (one even took up writing in the series' fan fiction community after being dissatisfied with the abrupt canceling of the series), so the implication that it was universally abhorred (and that is what it kinda implies at the moment, ya know, with the phrasing "poorly received by both comic book fans and the mainstream audience" all by its lonesome) is erroneous. With the changes from the comics, well, of course some of the pickier comics fans are going to hate it, for the same reasons a lot of them dislike Smallville. A decent-sized chunk of the "mainstream" audience apparently liked the show, and a decent number of critics seemed to like it as well, and the page should reflect that.

So, my suggestion: add a "Response" section (you know, like most other TV and film articles on individual films/episodes/series do?), and note specific criticisms and specific positive and negative reactions to the show. Right now, the vibe I'm getting is "everybody hated it, because it was an incoherent mess that mixed way too many timelines together", and that only seems to reflect ONE POV. In other words, I'm just slightly tempted to add an NPOV tag here. Perhaps we can avoid going that far, though, if only we add a Response section that includes both major POVs (e.g. the tangled mess of mixed-up timelines POV, and the "hey, this is really entertaining" POV espoused by a number of critics. At least, a number of Floridian critics, anyway). Runa27 19:41, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

As long as what's posted is cited properly and not POV on either side, go wild. The fact network politics appears to have been the reason why the show was cancelled -- which directly contradicts most media reports on the show's demise -- is interesting and if someone wants to add this (if not already), feel free. But the fact that major media outlets cited low ratings needs to be acknowledged. This is sorta a variation on the cancellation of Star Trek: Enterprise. You'll get supporters (including people behind-the-scenes) stating network politics cancelled it, and people on the other side will say it was cancelled for poor ratings -- despite the fact that shows with lower ratings were renewed. There does seem to be a lack of support for the show on the network side, however, in that the WB has no plans to release it to DVD, despite the strong sales of other superhero TV shows like Wonder Woman and Superboy -- BOP would fit right in with these. 23skidoo 01:04, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

More than 18 months later, I'm happy to take back my comment regarding DVD release, though it's a shame they didn't release it, well, 2 years ago. 23skidoo (talk) 13:46, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

two pilots

Birds of Prey had 2 pilots - an aired version and an unaired version. This can be confirmed by an external link already being used on the Birds of Prey page. Could a fan who has seen both of these pilots make an appropriate note/change to the page if warranted? I've only seen one of these, so I'm not informed enough to do so.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.42.199.132 (talk) 18:35, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Please sign your comments. I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for here. The article already has a paragraph discussing the two pilots. 23skidoo 03:17, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

There are probably three or four different versions of the "pilot" episode if you factor in bootleg copies with the various songs. (Songs featured were replaced after they were originally aired.) 71.61.77.139 (talk) 23:31, 6 August 2010 (UTC) (Matthew C.)

Please do not edit the comments of others. I have put the first post in this section back to the way it was and added an "unsigned comment" tag.

As to the music changing that would not affect just the pilot but all episodes. Music changes, while most extremely annoying, are not considered the same level of change as recasting or reshooting or a different edit of an episode. If you want to get really picky then i could mention that before it was left on a bus by a friend i had a copy of a rough edit of the pilot for Skin and now these days it can't even be bought. There are some changes. A couple of scenes are of different durations from those in the aired version however it is not considered an unaired pilot because of those changes in editing. I have BoP on VHS from a syndication of it. You have peeked my interest to find out what music is used in the version i have on VHS... if only i still owned a VCR :( delirious & lost ☯ ^~hugs~ 03:08, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

I have five STUDIO-PRODUCED versions of the pilot on DVD. (These are not fan edits or fan creations.) 9 August 2010 (UTC) (Matthew C.)

As far as editing a previous post, I apologize. I was only trying to provide accurate information. Editing a wiki page is the wiki's intended purpose. The music isn't the only change between the two pilots. There are MANY scenes that are either removed or changed between the two. As far as the music goes, the official DVD episodes have a completely different/inferior theme song. 71.61.77.139 (talk) 05:05, 8 August 2010 (UTC) (Matthew C.)

Subplots are drastically changed between the two (official) pilots. 71.61.77.139 (talk) 05:15, 8 August 2010 (UTC) (Matthew C.)

"cat-like" powers

This is a nod to the Catwoman movie, not Batman Returns. Selena had no powers in Batman Returns. 68.52.88.131 10:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

The producers clearly intended a relationship between BOP and BR (or did you not notice Catwoman's costume in the pilot?)LizFL 20:46, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

No it's not. The Catwoman movie came out two years after BOP 12.210.210.95 21:37, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Whatever, it *still* isn't a reference to Batman Returns, which was what the article said before I edited it. 68.52.88.131 01:17, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Regardless, adding incorrect info doesn't help anyone 12.210.210.95 19:26, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

In the article now, it implies that the meteor shower from the Smallville timeline is responsible for Huntress' powers (see Trivia section).

Huntress was being flippant when she said that line about a meteor shower. It was never intended as a causal relationship.LizFL 20:46, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Also, it may be a nod (or not) to the older Batman movies, one of which featured a Selena Kyle with catlike powers and behavior (and an origin story, I'd like to add, that the Catwoman flick kind of ripped off a little), though again, apparently there's an in-story explanation that has nothing to do with a near-death experience with cats. :P Runa27 20:38, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Watch "Batman Returns" again. A fall from THAT height would've killed most people. Clearly, the cats that revived her did SOMETHING to her.LizFL 11:21, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

If you're responding to my post, I apologize for the confusion, but the last sentence was not actually intended to refer to the Batman movie (BR) with Selena Kyle's character, but to the metahuman stuff used in BoP to explain Huntress and others' powers (as I recall). Then again, maybe it's a nod to both - after all, like you said, a fall from THAT height... and DC has been known to try to retcon every "freak lab accident" backstory with some sort of "it triggers the powers, but the potential was always there. It's a survival mechanism" thing. I'm too tired to make the explanation coherent, but I hope you get the picture and know what I'm talking about. :) Runa27 21:24, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Links

I would like to add http://www.batmanytb.com/tv/bop/index.php to the links section. It is actually more informative then the links that are listed, whic are BTW, FAN sites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xphermg (talk • contribs)

• No. It's a commercial site with ads and its own YTB store. Fan sites have problems, that's true. We need to check them out. As I said elsewhere, your joining Wikipedia just to promote this site and your persistence in it sure make it look like you're one of the people making money off the YTB site. You said on User:Ipstenu's talk page that it has no advertising. Oh, come on. There's a Wal-Mart search box! Not to mention the Amazon and Overstock merchandise search boxes, and the Amazon items for sale in the lower left corner. Doczilla 06:18, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Episode notability

All of the episodes of this series fail the notability guidelines for television episodes. The way for these articles to be improved is through the inclusion of real-world information from reliable sources to assert notability. That is unlikely to happen, and these only have certain bad aspects (though all may not apply) like containing overly long or one sentence plot summaries, trivia, and quotes. Per that, they need to be a small part of this list.

If there are no objections, these will be redirected soon. Otherwise, discussion will take place here. Please remember that this is not a vote. If you like the information, that's fine and dandy, but your opinion doesn't really count towards anything. The only opinions that do count are ones that that lean towards the inclusion of real world information. TTN 22:17, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

I would tend to concur that the episode details could be sensibly merged either into this page, or to a stand-alone 'episodes' page, so long as no information is lost. --AlisonW 23:26, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

OK, this is just ridiculous. List of Birds of Prey episodes, despite the fact that such titles are almost EXCLUSIVELY reserved for articles that actual lists, and not for redirects to the main page of a series which can easily be found through search if you're actually searching for that, or could be found through the series' name... redirects. To this page. ARGH. I've had to create the attempt at a list article under Birds of Prey episodes, which just seems jarring to me, as it doesn't follow the usual naming format. Is there any way to alter a redirect so that it will point to there, or change its name to that without conflicting with the redirect? Anyway, I'm starting work on the list article; please do NOT delete full articles until it is completed, as I'm reusing a lot of the material by reformatting it (though I wish I knew how to create tables for this sort of thing as it would possibly look a little better. Maybe something like they have on List of Lucy, the Daughter of the Devil episodes?). :) Runa27 22:17, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

ETA:I've done the first two episodes and intro, but it's still incomplete. I'll be working on adding the others, but I'll probably leaving work in a little over half an hour, and will probably not be able to complete everything today. Runa27 22:20, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

ETA again: OK, so I've got the first four episodes in sufficient detail (minus pictures, many of which I feel should be carried over). The other 9 episodes are basically listed with name, internal link and brief airing details. I may not be able to do any more for a few days, depending on how things work out. : \ Runa27 23:13, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Did this appear in America?

I've never heard of it before and I think I'd know about a new series on WB if it came of in 2002. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.160.17.246 (talk) 18:34, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

• Uh, yeah. I assume you're joking. The show was all over the place on The WB. Maybe you lived in a region that didn't yet carry the network in 2002 (neither it nor UPN had complete coverage of the US). Not only did it air in North America, but Warners has now announced a DVD release for the series. 23skidoo (talk) 13:43, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Region 2

Has there been any announcement for a R2 DVD release? Dracoster (talk) 21:06, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I hope so but no word so far (this was by venomsgod101 but i cant log in for some reason. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.109.121.39 (talk) 22:23, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Black Canary's name

IMDb (and Rachel Skarsten) has the character listed as Dinah LANCE, but the page here says Dinah Redmond. The character biography suggests that this is her name prior to discovering who her mother is, but can anyone confirm how the character is credited on screen? Surely it should be Lance, with (if accurate) Redmond listed in the mini-bio. ntnon (talk) 03:38, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

The character isn't credited on screen at all. It just has the actors' names, not the characters'. For what it's worth, Dinah was never called "Dinah Lance" in the show, but on the other hand, her full name was never shown or stated after discovering who her biological mother was. In the show she is therefore never called anything but Dinah Redmond.

The page currently says "Dinah Redmond (nee Dinah Lance)", indicating that her name is Redmond but her birth name is Lance, which seems to be the most accurate summary.

As an aside, the character is never called Black Canary — that's her mother. Dinah never receives a code name in the show. 82.95.254.249 (talk) 20:02, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Dinah is called Dinah Lance in Alfred's voice-over in the official DVD version of the Aired Pilot. "...Dinah Lance was not more than a child living far from New Gotham...". She later confesses to Oracle and Huntress that her last name is Redmond. Maybe 'Lance' is her birth mother's name and 'Redmond' is the name of her foster parents that she ran away from. She was talking about school records at that point. 71.61.77.139 (talk) 23:31, 6 August 2010 (UTC) (Matthew C.)

Dinah is called Dinah Lance is the aired pilot voice-over (completely different from the unaired pilot voice-over). In the second episode Dinah confesses that her last name is Redmond. This is confirmed in the third episode when Black Canary tells us that her real name is Caroline Lance, that she is Dinah's biological mother, and that the foster family was named Redmond. 71.61.77.139 (talk) 05:11, 8 August 2010 (UTC) (Matthew C.)

Deleted paragraph

I deleted a paragraph that was simple speculation without sourcing that the series was somehow related to Smallville, which is unlikely. Plus Smallville created its own version of Black Canary anyway with no connection to this show. If someone can find an article where the writers say the show was a spinoff of Smallville, feel free to put it back, but otherwise this was textbook WP:NOR so I took it out. 70.72.223.215 (talk) 18:14, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Batman and Catwoman

Who were the actor & actress who played Batman & Catwoman in the opening scenes? Was the actress who played Catwoman in costume also playing Selena, right when she was murdered right in front of Helena?--Splashen (talk) 04:18, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

why is there no ref for plot? correction no ref for chars either LAZY

wiki's not supposed to be original work and there's no ref's for the plot. Can anyone provide one? Just noticed that there's no refs pretty much for anything. People we need refs.— Preceding unsigned comment added by ImUglyButPrettyUgly (talk • contribs) 06:56, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Reception

If anyone ever decides to create a Reception section a review from TV Guide might be useful. Found it while looking for other things. -- 109.76.202.211 (talk) 01:16, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

2020 version

why does the page offer up a link to BIRD of prey disambig, but not one for the BIRDS version? it is needed to get to the 2020 movie, for example. 2601:19C:527F:A680:191:D30C:392A:A868 (talk) 04:14, 31 July 2022 (UTC)