Talk:The Wild Party (poem)

This needs disambiguation. There's also Andrew Lippa's The Wild Party not to mention the original poem.

The comments comparing the two musicals ("but the music is drastically different, and, in the opinion of many, more powerful. This version starred ...While the music in the LaChiusa version is structured more for the purpose of furthering the plot and character development, Lippa's version is much bolder, and in the eyes of many, simply more fun.") do not seem to me to be in keeping with the neutrality policy of this site.

Edit: 28/08/2005 I have restructured the article, in order to make the various versions a littler clearer. I have not changed the text to deal with the neutrality dispute...

FB 2000 28/08/2005 00:50 BST

-- I deleted the reference to Lippa's being "bolder," which is a judgment call not in keeping with Wikipedia's NPOV. Although against my better judgment, I left in the comment about people finding Lippa's more fun, because many people do consider it such. But it still borders strongly on opinion, and I think that just about the entire page needs to be rewritten. While I have a very strong preference when it comes to the musicals, it must be possible to write this article in such a way that acknowledges both without leaning to one side or another. --WesternActor

Wouldn't it be best to just have a disambiguation page, which leads to at least three pages: One for the March poem, one for LaChiusa's stage version, and one for Lippa's? Lumping them all together this way is pretty ridiculous, it seems to me, but if there's only going to be one page for all of them, it should rightfully be primarily about the poem, which spawned the two stage versions and (at least one) film. --WesternActor

Hi! I've changed the date of the book publishing because my "Lost Classic" with the Art Spiegelman drawings was published in 1994. Also, is it possible there was a third musical version or the dates were wrong? I was taken to see it on a date in Sydney and my relationship was definitely busted up by 2000. The version I saw only had two actors and an accompianist on piano and stuck strictly to the poem. I guess it wasn't a musical per se, but there was music and singing! 203.217.57.33 12:24, 30 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the last line of this article ( "many regard the Andrew Lippa version much better than the LaChiusa version") in accordance to the Wikipedia NPOV as it seems intentionally provocative in light of the balanced paragraph that precedes it and is neither substantiated or verifiable.

I find the few lines at the end are slightly violating neutrality. specificly the "intuitive and intelligent' and 'indulgent' sentences. I honestly dont care if you like the Lippa version, but dont try and pass your opinions off as a view of the general populace. If there are specific reviews, cite them! If no one corrects this, im only too happy to. There is still alot of debate in the general public about which is better. I've personally found that those with more education and experience in music to enjoy the LaChiusa version more becasue it is more complex musicaly and tonally and rhythmicly. Also, I personally find it difficult to deal with Lippa's ridiculous lyrics ('He was a very scary clown!' 'Let's forget it and tear up the carpet mat'). But getting back to the point, PLEASE keep this neutral, as there is alot of debate about which is better.-JulesRules989

I'm sorry, the more I look at that final section the more I see wrong with it. The Lippa version may have a LARGER ensemble, but it doesn't really help to display the full body of the poem because it focuses too much on the central charachters. Also, the love triangle may be the driving force behind the plot, but the true central theme of the poem is the relationships between all the different characters. -julesrules989

Reviews

Regarding the statement, "Both shows were thought to be highlights of the theater season": I saw the Broadway version. I thought it was terrific, but I learned that the reviews were unfavorable, and in any event the production closed in only two months. Isn't that inconsistent with a claim that a show on Broadway was thought to be a highlight of the season? —Largo Plazo 04:54, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Deletions

I have deleted the sections devoted to the musical versions, which were written before the musicals themselves had articles written about them. All this information can be found in those articles. This one should be limited to the original poem. ConoscoTutto 14:45, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

first published work? Doubt it. Epic Poetry? Nope!

March's article indicates he was an editor of The New Yorker in 1925. I assume the job involved some creation of published copy. Bustter (talk) 01:31, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"March's literary influence is great, even with this somewhat lesser-known work."

wtf? The Wild Party is definitely his best known work...try to find anything else he's written at Amazon in an edition more recent than 1968.

But then, with no citations or references for this article, I don't suppose I should expect accuracy. 70.173.203.180 (talk) 19:22, 17 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the statement that this is March's first published work and the statement that this is a "lesser-known" work of his. I also question that this can be termed "epic poetry." The fact that it is a long narrative poem does not make it an epic.

There's many definitions of "epic poetry" on the web. Most cite one or more of these characteristics:

A long narrative about a serious or worthy traditional subject.

Diction is elevated in style. It employs a formal, dignified, objective tone and many figures of speech.

The narrative focused on the exploits of an epic hero or demigod who represents the cultural values of a race, nation, or religious group.

The hero's success or failure determines the fate of an entire people or nation.

The action takes place in a vast setting; it covers a wide geographic area. The setting is frequently set some time in the remote past.

The action contains superhuman feats of strength or military prowess. Gods or supernatural beings frequently take part in the action to affect the outcome. This supernatural intervention often implies two simultaneous plots.

The poem begins with the invocation of a muse to inspire the poet--i.e., a prayer to an appropriate supernatural being. The speaker asks that this being provide him the suitable emotion, creativity, or diction to finish the poem. Often the poet states a theme or argument for the entire work--such as "arms and the man."

The narrative starts in medias res, in the middle of the action. Subsequently, the earlier events leading up to the start of the poem will be recounted in the characters' narratives or in flashbacks.

The epic contains long catalogs of heroes or important characters, focusing on highborn kings and great warriors rather than peasants and commoners.

The epic employs extended similes (called epic similes) at appropriate spots of the story, and a traditional scene of extended description in which the hero arms himself.

Often, the main protagonist undergoes a terrifying journey--sometimes a descent into the underworld--i.e., into hell or the realm of the dead.

http://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/documents/What_is_an_Epic.pdf

March was smart enough to know his poem was not an epic. Perhaps a "low-rent epic," but good luck finding a reliable source that calls it that.

To say that it is written in "classical epic" style is just plain wrong.

Bustter (talk) 18:09, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Burroughs Quote

The whole damn article is without cites or references, but I am pretty sure that the quote “The Wild Party?… It’s the book that made me want to be a writer” was specifically solicited by Pantheon Books, the publishers of "Art Spiegelman, The Wild Party : The Lost Classic by Joseph Moncure March" and is included on the 1999 book's back cover. Making up some vague interview where the quote was generated is what the kids call "totally bogus" [in 1980] Bustter (talk) 01:43, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed with an account of the actual origin of the quote, and a citation of Spiegelman's book. All of the factual information in this article [other than info regarding the recent musical play adaptations] can be found in Spiegelman's foreword, so it serves adequately as the sole reference.