Talk:Red flag (politics)

The Anthem

What anthem? --212.247.27.34 (talk) 01:40, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Other uses for the Red Flag

As is suggested below in the air force training exercise section, there are other uses and meanings for the Red Flag besides the universal socialist banner.

However, I don't think references to them belong here, and certainly not in the first line of the article. I think we should move them to the disambiguation page, and if they are large enough to span an article, write so.

An alternative can be creating a section labelled "Other uses of the Red Flag". --Gatonegro 12:50, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I do not know yet how to correctly edit wikipedia but I would like to point out a fact that could perhaps be included in the article. As recently as 1931, a California statute defined display of a red flag as a statement of "opposition to organized government". see: Stromberg v. California As an official legal interpretation of the red flag this should be noted, although it would clearly contradict those eager to maintain the red flag as exclusively a symbol for the brute force correctly associated with Stalinism etc. --thenoticer 15:48, 25 March 2006

Does the red flag belong to Po (teletubby)? Crazy 29 12:51, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Red Flag and Ancient Rome

Hi all! I was surprised when I came across this article to find that there was no reference to Gaius Marius and the ancient Roman slave revolts.

When I was involved in leftist politics, the story that I had been taught was that the Red Flag became associated with socialism during the Paris commune as this article states. But before that, it had a long history of symbolizing the blood of the oppressed, martyrs or others at the bottom of the social period, that dates all the way back to the Roman Empire.

The relevant section of Gaius' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaius_Marius) wikipedia page is the section labelled "Social War". The events this wikipedia page refers to, is when Giaus Marius raised an army of slaves, gladiators, and peasants with the intent of overthrowing the 'dictator' Sulla and restoring Rome to the people. The story as I was taught it, is that the slaves took white sheets, and drenched them in blood to create the red flag, and symbolize the others that had fallen. While Sulla was fighting a distant war, they overthrew Rome, and killed many at the top of the political ladder that were supporters of Sulla in an attempt to form a new political order in the nation's capital. Ultimately, they were beaten in battle by Sulla when he returned.

This is supposedly why the Paris commune chose the red flag at all. Just like the slaves of Gaius Marius, the members of the Paris commune were attempting to capitalize on their nation's involvement in a foreign war. They did so by organizing the underclass into an army, overthrowing the political leadership in their nation's capital, executing the nation's 'corrupt' leadership, and attempting to instate a new political order. They were ultimately defeated when the more traditional french forces arrived back in Paris. That is to say, it is an extremely similar series of events.

The similarity of these events, in turn, is part of why the red flag is looked upon so metaphorically and positively in the socialist community, as it paints a poetic narrative of an underclass that, for thousands of years, whether in Ancient Rome or Paris, has continuously raised the red flag and attempted to take back their nations from the aristocracy throughout history.

I am new to wikipedia, I don't even have an account, but I have found some sources via quick google searching. The book Common Cause google book link here: (https://books.google.com/books?id=Q_E-AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA103&lpg=PA103&dq=red+flag+ancient+rome+slaves&source=bl&ots=5qAe2N6tD5&sig=ACfU3U2XhMB5c7at5nIGjIvRN4Zzyb-SSg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjuoLrq0I7qAhWlhXIEHVAuCM0Q6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=red%20flag%20ancient%20rome%20slavesplebian%20slaves&f=false) is a book from 1912, where the author is discussing how the red flag was flown during the American Revolutionary War (is this also worth putting in the article? I think this would shock most American readers). In the first paragraph on page 103, the author states that he thinks "Old Glory" (the new American Flag) should be the only flag flown in the newly formed United States, because it is untainted by the bloodshed of Gaius Marius' slave rebellion, and the long socialist history of the flag. https://revcom.us/a/045/story-red-flag.html also pops up in google with the same story.

Perhaps we need someone well schooled on ancient Rome to source this claim one way or another? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.108.220.214 (talk) 20:08, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Red Flag and the British Labour Party

I know this is the wrong section but I am new to wikipedia editing so apologies. My query is why is there no mention of its first use stated as in 1831??? Was not the first time the red flag flown anywhere was in 1831 on Hirwaun Common during the Merthyr rising. Its a very overlooked historical event everywhere but Wales unfortunately. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.91.100 (talk) 02:31, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

"The red flag was the emblem of the British Labour Party from its inception to until the Labour Party Conference of 1986 when it was replaced by a red rose. The red rose has subsequently been adopted by a number of other socialist and social-democratic parties throught Europe."

I believe that the British Labour Party borrowed the rose symbol from continental Europe, rather than the other way around. The French Socialist Party, for example, adopted "the fist and the rose" as its emblem in 1969. Does anyone else have dates for other European socialist parties? Picapica 22:49, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

thumb|100pxThe fist with a rose symbol was adopted by the French Socialist Party in Septembre 1971 from what I gather. (Although it was indeed designed in 1969.) However the rose on its own seems to be a more common symbol among other European socialist parties (Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland) and could rightly be attributed to the Labour. — François 21:44, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The fist and rose was (to my recollection) has been broadly used in Europe, both for socialist organisations such as IUSY and also a number of individual socialist parties including those emerging from fascism in Spain and Portugal. I'd have thought that the British Labour Party's adoption of the rose was inspired by these european precedents. I first came across the logo/image in the late '70s. Is the inspiration of the red rose based on Labour's adoption in '86, or the earlier fist and rose? Which party/organisation started the fist and rose? --DaveLevy (talk) 16:39, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I have amended the article to reflect this discussion--Wickifrank (talk) 15:45, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

The song "The Red Flag" remains the anthem of the British Labour Party, should this be noted? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.121.151.174 (talk) 23:39, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I have so noted in the article--Wickifrank (talk) 15:45, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Red Flag air force training exercise

Red Flag is also an air force training exercise supposedly and apparently simulating each air force member's first ten "missions" or days of war. These first ten are by far the riskiest in anyone's term of war, whether they joined the war at the start or the end. Someone is practically invincible after these first ten days or "missions". While obviously no training can or should perfectly simulate this experience, Red Flag's realism brings it close to the real first ten days or "missions" and is even more difficult and intense than reality. (Difficult and intense in terms of skill, of course. In real combat, one still has to deal with the danger and loss of life.) "Death" replaces death, training failure replaces mission failure, and preparation ensures victory.FET 00:43, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

If you have referances to confirm what you say, prehaps you would like to start a page on this alternative use at Red Flag (Air force training exercise) or something similar. When you have constructed it you could add this line to the top of this Red flag page "Red flag is also an air force training exercise see Red Flag (Air force training exercise)"--JK the unwise 10:28, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

It would appear he has more than are used for this article to "confirm what (you) say." Any other topic category in wiki would get a banner demanding sources, so why not this one? Hmm?--Buckboard 05:47, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Red Flag usage in Russia

In the book The Russian Civil War (1) The Red Army (ISBN 1-85532-608-6) the author (Mikhail Khvostov) says that the Red Flag was traditionally flown from tall buildings in villages with a plague epidemic. He also suggests that because of this, in the Russian Civil War, White Russian armies steered clear of villages held by the Red Army as they saw the Red Flag and thoght the village was diseased.

Is this any good? Perhaps it could be included in the History section of the article (Russia bit),as a historic use of the Red Flag?

PJB 17:02, 26 February 2006 (UTC) (Talkin' to me?)

I'm having problems citing this. For some reason once I've referenced the above info and press SAVE the whole bottom half of the article dissapears! Its the first time I've done this and, even after going to WP:Cite I still cant get it right! Can anyone help! AAAAGGGGHHHH!!!

PJB 18:22, 26 February 2006 (UTC) (Talkin' to me?)

I have added the ref' for you using the {{NamedRef}}/{{NamedNote}} method. I'm not sure what the consensous meathod is as loads of articles use differnt ways.--JK the unwise 13:42, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Cheers

PJB 16:32, 27 February 2006 (UTC) (Talkin' to me?)

More info

This socialist website link mentions the 'Significance of the Red Flag'. Is it useful info to go in the article or as a link? PJB 21:59, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

It mentions early origins/useages PJB 22:01, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Bloodthirsty contradiction?

In the history section it's stated that the red flag came to symbolise a less bloodthirsty message beginning in the early 17th century, but the flag hadn't acquired that reputation until the 18th century, thanks to the Buccaneers (who had became especially sadistic by the time piracy was dying out in the early 18th century), and thanks to the Jacobins of 1792-1795. Before them, it was just a battle-flag. Any objections to removing the sentence?

Did the Paris Commune really use the red flag?

The Paris Commune article says of Lenin:

At his funeral, his body was wrapped in the remains of a red and white flag preserved from the Commune.

But the Red flag article says this:

The red flag subsequently became the banner of the Paris Commune in 1871, at which time it became firmly associated with socialism.

Who is correct? Was the flag of the Paris Commune entirely red? Or was it red and white?

(I posted this question at Talk:Paris Commune but no one volunteered an answer.) — Lawrence King ^(talk) 05:35, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

The red flag was *a* flag used by the Commune - before the time of the Commune it red flags had become a revolutionary tradition, due to their uses in 1789, 1830, 1848 (in the February and June revolutions), etc, by groups that leftists could trace a heritage from. So the sentence "The red flag subsequently became the banner of the Paris Commune in 1871, at which time it became firmly associated with socialism." is a bit misleading, because (a) the flag was already associated with the left by this time, and (b) the Commune doesn't slot neatly with one -ism: it was definately a leftist revolution, but there were many different groups working together in it including different branches of socialists, anarchists, the odd Marxist, etc. 86.160.226.192 (talk) 12:41, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Dates?

The photo of Jean Jaurès (or any photo of a historical event) needs a date. --Isaac R 19:50, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Metaphorical usage: "send up a red flag", "raise a red flag", etc.

What is the origin of the modern methaporical usage of "raising a red flag"? e.g. here, or here or here or here or here or here. The article mentions "In pre-civil war Russia the Red flag was used as a symbol of warning...". Did modern Americans (especially when it comes to résumés and tax returns) really inherit this usage from the Russians? Ewlyahoocom 19:44, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

The red flag was written by james connolly, the scots/irish socailist —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.97.204.35 (talk) 18:08, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

The earliest citation of "red flag" is dated 1777,[1] so I find all the explainations given in the article dubious. The original usage obviously didn't have anything to do with Russia, communism, Jacobins, or bullfighting.Kauffner (talk) 18:36, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

The red flag makes an appearance in Robinson Crusoe (1719) as a pirate flag. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.232.216.21 (talk) 00:33, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

The red flag is an old (16th-17th century) naval flag that signifies 'no quarter given', in other words 'take no prisoners'. As such, it is perhaps the most inflammatory of flags as, when raised, it means that any battle will be to the death. Hence it's use by pirates. This caused consternation during the Surrender of the German Fleet at Scapa Flow, as many of the German crews had embraced Communism and were flying red flags from their ships, until the above fact was pointed out to them. Legally, the British ships accepting the surrender could have opened fire on those flying red flags without any further provocation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.40.252.186 (talk) 08:54, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Manchester United

I very much doubt that the words to the manchester united version of the Red Flag are accurate, primarily because it does not scan - that being the prime concern of football chants.

Any editions? Tomkeene 16:28, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Piracy

I think this article needs to have a lot less about piracy. In the early modern period, the red flag was a flag of defiance used by both pirates and non-pirates. People at the time didn't link it to piracy, as the quote I put in from Chambers Cyclopedia shows. We shouldn't get carried away with the Hollywood notion of pirates as a people with a separate culture and traditions. The use of the red flag by Communists and other socialists is derived from its use by the Jacobins during the French Revolution -- there is no allusion to piracy. Kauffner (talk) 04:53, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

In 18th century France the Bucaneers were well known -- there were plays about them and a few popular books. The general public knew that the red flag was a flag of the Bucaneers, and they knew its meaning -- that "no quarter" would be granted to prisoners. This is why people were so outraged by its use at the Champs de Mars -- and probably why the Jacobins adopted it afterwards. After the prison massacres, the Paris Jacobins sent communiques to their affiliates across the country encouraging them to follow the example by "granting no quarter" to the enemies of the revolution. I'd add this information to the article, but one of the many activists would just delete it. No matter how interesting and pertinent it is -- it's just unacceptable to many people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.232.228.171 (talk) 10:08, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Motorsport

I have added in a section for motorsport, as the flag one of the official flags in use, which has been used across many forms of motorsport, and has a significant meaning to the race.Harvyk (talk) 09:24, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

In the opening paragraph, it says that the first citation for a red flag was in 1602, and then in the same paragraph it goes on to say the first citation was in 1777. Which is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.211.103 (talk) 18:19, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

The actual citations are quotes in the footnotes. The 1602 citation is the sense of defiance in battle, i.e. the political usage. The 1777 citation is a red flag warning of flood. Kauffner (talk) 02:42, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

In Russian popular culture

I included one typical Russian joke about the Red flag, but did not include the second. Here it is:

"Vasily Ivanovich, I did not know that our Anka did not sleep with anyone yet" -- "Petka, why do you think so?" -- "I looked at our sheets in the morning and saw that it was red". -- Vasily Ivanovich: "What a whore! How many times I told her: Do not fuck on our Red Banner!". Biophys (talk) 06:21, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

This is stupid and does not belong in the article. Why don't we then insert silly jokes in every article, as we can find plenty for every topic? -YMB29 (talk) 15:41, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Humor is just as serious matter in wikipedia as pokemon and list of porn stars. This would be not stupid if there were citations from scholarly sources which talk about impact of red flag on Russian folklore. However in this case just citing a couple jokes is clear original research, especially with a commentary that it is "subject of numerous jokes". This is precisely why we don't insert jokes everywhere... but only where they are verifiably notable, e.g., in "Blonde stereotype". - Altenmann >t 16:14, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I like the joke and want to re-add it, but have to agree that, yes, a source should be required on its cultural impact. Pirate^Argh!!1! 03:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

• That's right, and I provided precisely that kind of source (ref. 18 in old version). This is a book about Soviet culture, including the influence on folklore on the Soviet culture by a recognized expert, a professional philologist, Benedikt Sarnov, "Our Soviet Newspeak: A Short Encyclopedia of Real Socialism"., Moscow: 2002, ISBN 5-85646-059-6 (Ru: Наш советский новояз. Маленькая энциклопедия реального социализма.) The connection was not made by me. It was made in the source.Biophys (talk) 22:46, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

You just gave a source for that joke, but did not prove that it had a cultural impact. -YMB29 (talk) 23:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

This entire book is about Soviet culture and the jokes were used as an illustration.Biophys (talk) 23:06, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

And why do you think any joke from Soviet times needs to be mentioned here? You were asked to prove that it had a real cultural impact. -YMB29 (talk) 23:08, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Because chapter "Red flag in Soviet popular culture" clearly belongs to this article, and it is perfectly sourced. If you know any other sources on the subject that tell something different, please use them to expand this part and make it more neutral.Biophys (talk) 23:20, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Again it is not sourced for cultural impact. -YMB29 (talk) 23:36, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Two well-sourced jokes that mention the red flag but I'm unclear what their inclusion is supposed to illustrate. The first one in particular seems to be more about attitudes to Brezhnev and the flag itself isn't central. Mutt Lunker (talk) 00:02, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

They illustrate Biophys' attitude towards the red flag and the USSR more than anything else. :::::Is profanity even allowed here? I mean it makes the whole article look like a joke... -YMB29 (talk) 00:58, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Why red flag is singled out for this tacky chapter? Why Russian Folklore is singled out, and not say African folklore? There are plenty of Russian jokes about Estonians and Finns, or American presidents, for example, all well sourced. Would you add a chapter in Estonians or Bill Clinton on their coverage in Russian anekdotes? The simplest solution for Biophys is to add a chapter on Red flag to Russian jokes not here. (Igny (talk) 00:56, 9 February 2010 (UTC))

Actually, to Russian political jokes. - Altenmann >t 02:37, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

If there is something about red flag in African or Finnish folklore, this can be added here. I do not see any problem.Biophys (talk) 22:54, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

The onus is to establish the validity to include. The valid reason to remove is that notability is not established. To varying degrees, all other participants have questioned the notability and you have singularly not established this. Citing the existence of the jokes does not establish their notability to the subject. The subject is not Jokes about the Red Flag in various cultures and even if it was you must demonstrate their notability. Mutt Lunker (talk) 23:23, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

It was published in a book by well known Russian philologist who described this as notable. What exactly proof of notability do you need?Biophys (talk) 04:22, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Where does he say that it is notable? -YMB29 (talk) 22:21, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

After being unsuccessful here, Biophys now decided to add the jokes to the Red Banner article... -YMB29 (talk) 22:21, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

RE to Mutt Lunker. OK, I checked what exactly the source tells. This is all described in relation to Article 190-3 of Soviet criminal code adopted in 1967 that prohibits defamation of Coat of arms of the Soviet Union and Red banner. It was adopted to prevent spreading the popular jokes according to author (190-1 - imprisonment for anti-Soviet agitation, 190-2 - for participating in unauthorized meetings). Hence the notability. Another popular story:

A foreigner drives to the USSR on his own car, but the car soon breaks down after falling into a huge hole in the middle of the road. The foreigner is outraged: "How come, you did not place a fence around, or even a warning sign, something red to be seen from the far?" -- Response: "Did not you see the huge Red flag when you crossed our border?".

And of course, "ty ne boisja p'janitsa nosa svoego, on ved' s nashim znamenem tsveta odnogo" (a parody to an official propaganda poetry for children: "Drunk men, do not be ashamed of your nose: it has the same color as our Flag"). No OR; this all per the book.Biophys (talk) 20:44, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Laws against defamation of regalia, flags, coat of arms, anthems etc is common in many countries not just Russia or Soviet Union. Move your jokes to Russian political jokes where they belong. (Igny (talk) 21:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC))

The chapter of the book has a title: "Hammer and sickle. Red Banner" (pages 501-505). So, the chapter is not about jokes. It is about Soviet Red Flag and how it was perceived in Russian/Soviet culture.Biophys (talk) 02:21, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Red Banner article

Should not whatever decision made here regarding the jokes apply to the Red Banner article also? -YMB29 (talk) 20:20, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Red Flag as name or title

I was surprised to see no mention of Red Flag Linux under section Communist/socialist Red Flag as name or title. Hey, a car, fine, but for anyone thinking of the red flag as old-fashioned, having a Linux distribution says "still used for names."

Shenme (talk) 22:40, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

The Nazi Flag

Seeing its prominence in the article made me suspicious from the start, not in the possible information it pertains to, which may or may not be valid in the way it is presented, but its placement instantly reeks that the edit was made to directly asscociate Socialism with Nazism. I decided to find which editor included it, lo and behold it was made by a user TheRock21 with an aggresive anti-liberal/leftist standpoint and one with a prior warning of making disruptive and misleading edits to pages pertaining to figures involved in politics they don't happen to agree with [[1]] [[2]] [[3]]. If the information must remain then it must be intergrated in an objective and less intentionally antagonistic manner. To be honest I'm rather disgusted that it's remained for this long as it has already proliferated through to dozens upon dozens of copycat Wiki articles across the web with even less standards than Wikipedia's own. As the article stands, I find it hard to integrate this information into the rest of the page without it seeming clumsy, but it can't remain in its present fashion. Would TheRock21 have us believe Hitler's appropriation of the Swastika was due in part to his admiration of the tenents of various Indian religions too? Maybe an Other Uses section mentioned above would be a more appropriate place for this rather in the portions that discuss its use prominent within leftist organisations 92.25.116.136 (talk) 10:14, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I've removed this section after reading the actual source. The lack of context severely over simplifies the reasoning behind Hitler's design of the Nazi flag, here is an online version of Mein Kampf if anyone else would like to assess this for themselves. Unfortunately, I'd suggest reading the entire chapter, the used portion appears approximately 3/5ths the way down. [1]. 89.240.190.157 (talk) 03:42, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

New reference was added. --Yopie (talk) 11:42, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the about.com reference you added doesn't address the argument at hand, all it serves to do is to needlessly reiterate what is found in the original source of Mein Kampf already provided of which the full quote is "In red we see the social idea of the movement, in white the nationalistic idea, in the swastika the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work, which as such always has been and always will be anti-Semitic". The problem here is that this page opens with the lines "a red flag is a symbol of left-wing politics", thus anyone reading this article may then go on to asscoiate The Nazi Flag as being solely representative of left wing politics in itself if they are unfamiliar with the topic. You know this is a disingenuous and 'mis-contextualising' inclusion particularly in light of the individual who decided to create it in January in the first place. If you would like to argue over whether Nazism and its flag is particularly representative of left wing ideals yourself (which, as it stands, this page appears to imply in my opinion) see Wikipedia's own discussion page on Nazism which opens with the lines "Nazism presented itself as politically syncretic, incorporating policies, tactics and philosophies from right- and left-wing ideologies; in practice, Nazism was a far right form of politics" That last part has already been discussed and left for inclusion by a consensus of people on the talk page. I'm not opposed to a possible discussion in the article of Hitler's appropriation of the Red Flag, but since you don't seem to be willing to discuss this or make points of your own, and instead revert my edits without reason, I believe I have more foundation in removing this section based on my arguments as they stand. In fact, Hitler also mentions his particular choices in the design of the Nazi flag rather in an attempt to recall the colours of the Reichskriegsflagge of Imperial Germany which itself consisted of red, black and white: "revered colours expressive of our homage to the glorious past and which once brought so much honour to the German nation." [1] 92.25.118.154 (talk) 04:22, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

• Please register first, is not easy to dispute with anon IP. And you probably know, that Nazi Party was called in full name National Socialist German Workers' Party and was in beginning under influence of Strasserism.--Yopie (talk) 10:23, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I am sorry, but that means nothing. The word "socialism" has been used by a wide variety of different political parties and groups that had no connection to the historical socialist movement. Just like other words - "liberal", "conservative" or "democratic" - are sometimes used by political parties that are not liberal, conservative, or democratic. See for instance North Korea (the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea") and the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia.

More to the point, the sources given for the paragraph do not support the idea that the red field of the Nazi flag was derived from the socialist red flag. All of the sources - including the Flags of the World website - simply quote from Mein Kampf, where Hitler said that his use of red represented the "social idea of the movement" (which is vague). The Flags of the World website also quotes from John Toland's biography of Hitler, where Toland says that the Nazi flag contained a red field precisely in order to compete against the communist banner.

Also, including the Nazi flag is undue weight in an article that has nothing to do with the Nazis. We might as well include the flag of Taiwan, since that also contains a red field and was designed by a nationalist party that sometimes liked to call itself socialist. -- Amerul (talk) 15:17, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

I think the case has been made quite well that the Nazi flag should not be included in the article, as its origins and symbolism is more complex than those generally considered "red flags." However, as it is clearly connected to the topic, in that it was certainly partly inspired by the red flag, could it merit a position in the see also? Regards Aardwolf A380 (talk) 07:00, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Gallery?

A gallery of flags "based on the red flag" was added on 8 January 2014 (see page history). I am not entirely convinced that it is a good idea. Red is the most common colour on all flags in general, and trying to distinguish which flags were "based on the red flag" and which ones have a red field for other reasons (including related reasons) seems like it would lead us straight into OR. As long as the gallery contained only obvious communist flags, no one objected (including myself), because those are clearly derived from the original Red Flag. But if we're going to start including non-communist flags, there are so many difficult and controversial cases that it may be better to remove the gallery altogether. Consider, for example, the two Flags of Burma from 1948 to 2010. They featured a prominent red field, and the country declared itself to be socialist for a part of the period when those flags were used. But on the other hand the Red Ensign used by the former British colonial authorities also featured a red field, and Burma did not consider itself socialist when it first adopted a flag with a prominent red field. So... were those two flags of Burma based on the Red Flag, or not? I highly doubt there is any kind of scholarly consensus on this matter, since, typically, every flag is based on a variety of influences and takes inspiration from several other flags.

Therefore, in my opinion, the gallery should be either limited to obvious communist flags, where no controversy exists, or removed altogether. -- Amerul (talk) 16:38, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

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