Talk:Hardcore (electronic dance music genre)

Accuracy

What an appallingly incorrect article - probably the worst I've seen in the whole of wikipedia.

This article is bullshit; the roots of the UK hardcore sound lie in the early breakbeat and early rave of 1989 - 1990. The Belgian sound around that time mutated into the 'Belgian Techno' scene with R&S being the key early label; the industrial techno and gabber sounds which began around 1992 followed on from the 1990-1991 early hardcore sound which was effectively a mixture of breakbeat, techno, house, UK bleep / bass music, and early trance influences. It is a direct product of the early house and techno scene. The Continental Europe-Centric nature of this article is pretty damn shocking, since dance music has been a global sound from the beginning. Of course, you can just keep it as 'it all started in the netherlands' and forget about the contribution made from countries such as the UK, USA, Italy, Belgium, even Canada, if you want to keep it as a terrible article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.25.18.250 (talk) 00:23, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Furthermore the "white-washing" and attempt at revisionist history describing "techno" as a purely European phenomenon only emerging after electronic dance music was "ridden" of its Afro-American influence is utterly deplorable. It is well-established (as properly described in the main Wikipedia page for Techno) that the genre originated in Detroit, Michigan as pioneered by several African-American musicians who were influenced by Chicago house music as well as early electro (and yes, European electronic music such as Kraftwerk), among them Juan Atkins who invented the name "techno," inspired by Alvin Toffler. The imagined alternate history offered here is at best misleading; I want to assume that the authors meant "hardcore techno" where they typed simply "techno" in which case the sentence is nominally remedied by simply deleting that word. At worst, the article is either overtly or unintentionally racist in its mis-attribution. Possibly the truth lies somewhere in between and the authors are simply mind-bogglingly ignorant of the greater universe and storied history of techno beyond hardcore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.177.252.55 (talk) 19:04, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Completely agree with both of these previous comments Altlondon (talk) 19:12, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Same here, this article needs a lot of work to fix it. As stated above, the 90-92 period, which had a lot of productions from Belgium, UK, Germany, USA, Italy and Netherlands, is very poorly described. Also, an adequate inclusion of this period requires a more broad definition of the genre, because saying that it has a distorted kick and above 160 BPM misleads the reader to think that hardcore techno is just Netherland's Gabber and its derivatives. That is conveniently narrow to that type of hardcore fans and very biased, and totally out of line for a wikipedia article, as it leaves out early hardcore styles that had a variety of rhythms akin to breakbeat, house/techno, new beat or EBM, being only slightly faster or heavier in the beats Neki9999 (talk) 23:05, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Natural disambiguation of article title

Revisiting the unresolved article title situation and the {{citation needed}} tags in the article lede, hopefully we can avoid the awkward, current "electronic dance music genre" disambiguator. I'm saving some source material here:

as Simon Reynolds (2013) puts it, "the UK came up with its own unique mutant of House and Techno ... adding elements from dub reggae, dancehall," as well as electro, resulting in UK breakbeat music that he calls the "hardcore continuum." This is not to be confused with hardcore techno, though, a fast-moving nihilist four-on-the-floor style of techno that emerged from, for example, Rotterdam in the Netherlands. By contrast, within the UK hardcore continuum, the pulse is present yet ruptured by a polyrhythmic combination of digitally processed repetitive breakbeats that offer both speed in the rhythm elements and, simultaneously, slowness in the basslines.
— Julien, Olivier; Levaux, Christophe, eds. (2018). Over and Over: Exploring Repetition in Popular Music. Bloomsbury Publishing USA. pp. 76–77. ISBN 978-1-5013-2489-5.

I call it 'Hardcore' because the tradition started to take shape circa 1990 with what people called Hardcore Techno or Hardcore Rave, or sometimes simply Ardkore.
— Reynolds, Simon (February 2013). "The Wire 300: Simon Reynolds on the Hardcore Continuum: Introduction". The Wire Magazine. Retrieved January 1, 2023.

Jungle may be the U.K. phenomenon of the moment, but for the leading lights of hardcore dance music, the genre is too diverse to be embraced by one moniker.
— Toop, David (1994-10-29). "Genre Defies Labels". Billboard. pp. 1, 24, 25. ISSN 0006-2510.

• https://books.google.com/books?id=qIdH2yR41bIC&q=%22hardcore%22

...one small part of the ghetto vibe settling over the rave nation like a gray smog . Ravers too horny, angry, or eager to get buzzed on animal tranquilizers to settle for softer techno are moshing to fiercely futuristic machine music that's as brutal as hardcore punk rock. It's called hardcore techno, and it feels like a beat-down from Robocop. ... American techno, and therefore American hardcore, began in the early '90s with straight-up East Coast DJs like Frankie Bones, Nicky Fingers, and Rob Gee.
— Blashill, Pat. "Loud, Fast, and Out of Control". Spin. pp. 130–.

czar 03:18, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Hard dance

I would say that hard dance is a separate genre next to hard house, hard trance or hardstyle - than just category for these genres. Hard house, hard trance and hardstyle aren't a hard dance music but hard dance, hard house, hard trance and hardstyle are genres of electronic dance music. Hard dance is a harder version of dance music in the same way as hard trance is a harder version of trance music also both hard dance and hard trance are hard music. Hardstyle has harder kicks than hard dance. Eurohunter (talk) 10:13, 22 September 2024 (UTC)