Talk:Leaving Certificate (Ireland)

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Archive 1

Discussion archive #1

Nightmare fuel

The article is excessively long and confusing, particularly because the exam system is described in various different sections of the article, then the prose performs sudden handbrake turns when it goes on to describe more recent changes to the way the exams operate. This produces an unfortunate whiplash effect in the mind of the disappointed reader who thought s/he was reading current information up to that point but finds that it is in fact outdated, with following paragraphs describing changes that have been introduced to the curriculum or how the exam is organised.

I have spent four hours cleaning up the article but further clean up is needed by someone patient enough to pick apart and excise many paragraphs of historical information so that only the current situation is described.

This will be tricky, unfortunately, because some of the information described here – before changes were introduced on different occasions by the Department of Education – remain current while some of the information is deadwood. It's a sad and chaotic mess.

In addition, the article ought to be reviewed critically to determine how much detail is needed, anyway. It contains far too much information. — O'Dea (talk) 15:02, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Looking over the article it appears fine. All of it's information is up to date and it does not conflate past and present information. The two are kept separate. As it currently stands there is no need to try and update the article because it already is updated. Dubarr18 (talk) 21:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The article really isn't "fine" because at various points it describes aspects of the leaving cert without warning the reader that the text being read at that point is historical, then the reader reaches a point where the article continues "then in year X, things changed." It is only at this point that the reader understands that the previous paragraphs are outdated, they are not descriptions of the current state of affairs, which follows the statement "then in year X." This confusion occurs a few times during the article, which is playing ping-pong against the reader's skull. — O'Dea (talk) 06:27, 16 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Again the article is fine in this regard. It doesn't switch between the past and present as you are saying here, all of it's information is up to date. Do you have anything you would consider an example of this? Dubarr18 (talk) 17:49, 16 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 29 August 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus that the existing DAB is necessary, as there are other countries that use the term "Leaving Certificate" to a meaningful extent. Additional rough consensus that the capitalized form "Leaving Certificate" is widely enough used to be preferable to sentence case. (closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:25, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Leaving Certificate (Ireland) → Leaving Certificate – The current target of Leaving Certificate is a redirect to List of secondary school leaving qualifications, but as posted in Talk: Leaving Certificate and discussed by myself in this AfD, the term "Leaving Certificate" is by far most commonly used to refer to the Irish qualification. I'm proposing this move and the deletion of the redirect to List of secondary school leaving qualifications, as List of secondary school leaving qualifications gets far fewer views than Leaving Certificate (Ireland), with Leaving Certificate getting barely 10 views a day. pinktoebeans ^(talk) 14:56, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Either way, move to WP:LOWERCASE (lowercase "certificate"). This is a common noun, not a proper noun. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 15:09, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The full name of the qualification is a proper noun so "Certificate" does need to be capitalised - see [1] and [2] pinktoebeans ^(talk) 15:44, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's an official certification, and the term is capitalized by some sources, but it is not a proper noun, since there is not just one single certificate – they hand out tens of thousands of these certificates. As far as I know, it is also not a trademark. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:00, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The name of this Irish secondary qualification is Leaving Certificate. Each word is always capitalised in every source that mentions it (I selected an official Irish government website and a major newspaper to show this convention), not just some. Please have a search of your own if you'd like to see this. Therefore, as Leaving Certificate is the official name of this specific qualification, it is thus a proper name and proper noun, and both words should be capitalised. pinktoebeans ^(talk) 19:51, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A discussion on the lowercase “certificate” is absurd to me. The Leaving Certificate is an official certification in Ireland and shouldn’t be lowercased proper noun or not. A simple Google search will see thousands of results showing Leaving Certificate or Leaving Cert. It has always been capitalised. As shown on the Irish government’s site and State Examinations Commission it’s never a lowercase ‘certificate’. [3] [4] Same goes for the Leaving Certificate Applied and Leaving Certificate Vocational Programme. Edl-irishboy (talk) 19:52, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - a search yields results which suggest the "leaving certificate" term is used in other countries such as India, so pointing at the list for disambiguation seems more appropriate in my opinion. - Indefensible (talk) 17:29, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose A high school graduation/leaving certificate/diploma is a general concept covered by List of secondary school leaving qualifications. As such, the various terms that might reasonably describe this general concept should reasonably direct to the general concept. Cinderella157 (talk) 10:20, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
oppose "Leaving Certificate" is not limited only to Ireland. The current redirect to "List of secondary school leaving qualifications" is the way to go. —usernamekiran (talk) 04:16, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.