Talk:Kika (TV channel)

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

Moved, 23 May 2005, from KiKa to KI.KA.
No consensus, 6 March 2012, from KI.KA to KiKA.
Not moved, 20 April 2012, from KiKa to KiKA.
Moved to Kika (TV channel), 20 June 2024, from KiKA to Kika (television channel).

Requested move (2005)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

KiKa → KI.KA -- Sloyment 12:49, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. violet/riga (t) 10:44, 28 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Bernd das Brot

"KI.KA plays a loop of Bernd das Brot films every night, during its notional close-down period from 9pm to 6am, causing bafflement to non-German viewers."

Does it? Really? Because its a blue screen with the KI.KA logo and "KI.KA sendet wieder ab 6 uhr." on satellite... --Kiand 21:10, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the Kika sendet wieder ab 6 always comes right after the end of the broadcast, if you want to watch Bernd das Brot you have to wait a while after the end of the broadcast. -Killarnee (C•T•U) 20:47, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

North America

Is it possible to get KI.KA in North America?

No. --Kiand 18:59, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move (March 2012)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Page moved to KiKa. Consensus was clear to change from the current name. However, consneus was mixed on what the target should be. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:11, 21 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

KI.KA → KiKA –Relisted. Without additional comments I'd move to Kika per below. Vegaswikian (talk) 01:10, 14 March 2012 (UTC) New name (see KiKA). 62.47.204.149 (talk) 19:57, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: WP:MOSCAPS would suggest Kika or Ki Ka or KIKA depending on correct pronunciation. --Falcadore (talk) 23:17, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I agree with Falcadore, except I would substitute KiKa for Ki Ka. And I think KiKa would be my primary preference as it retains the association with the expanded name while still following our capitalization guidelines (which, if I recall correctly, permits CamelCase in certain situations). Powers ^T 14:22, 14 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The first Austrian TV channel is now called ORF eins. --84.61.139.62 (talk) 20:19, 20 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move (April 2012)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. No consensus for the proposed new title, and the existing title (with CamelCaps) KiKa is used in the English reliable source referenced in the article (and per the move request above), and serves as a natural disambiguation. -- JHunterJ (talk) 12:29, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

KiKa → KiKA – The right TVchannel name is with capital "A". Maiō T. (talk) 11:11, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Both the present title and the proposed title are inadequate in a worldwide encyclopedia. See Kika (disambiguation) for the many confusable topics. See also provisions at WP:MOSTM, which would call for standardisation as "Kika", regardless of the organisation's own preferred idiosyncratic styling.
I therefore suggest this instead: Kika (television channel).
Note: I have made that page as a redirect to the present page; and I have updated the DAB page to show the present title accurately.
☺♥ Noetica^Tea? 22:33, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose proposed move; Support Kika (television station), as it is not a channel. --Bejnar (talk) 00:30, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have no objection, right now, to Kika (television station). Note however: in the first sentence of the article:"... is a public non-commercial free television channel ..."; and note that the name is a shortening of "Kinder-Kanal", where the natural translation of "Kanal" is "channel", nicht wahr? Anyway, I have now created that, as a further redirect to this article. Noetica^Tea? 00:48, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose nom, Support Noetica's and Bejnar's proposal to remove capitalisation. Seeing that the channel/station once stylised itself as KI.KA, I think that's the exact motivation behind normalising such trademarks and this article might be a good rationale for it. I have no particular opinion on whether it should be channel or station. --The Evil IP address (talk) 10:35, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, but what's with removing the capitalization. We traditionally allow CamelCase when its used to indicate words joined as a portmanteau. Powers ^T 02:54, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I support Kika (television channel). Let's move it! Maiō T. (talk) 16:01, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Let's not. Why the lowercase 'k'? Powers ^T 20:11, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Let's. Read submissions above about lc "k". That's for accord with Wikipedia's style guidelines. Noetica^Tea? 22:21, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - Yes, so you've asserted, but without explaining how they apply in this case. "KiKa" is a portmanteau incorporating the initial letters of two German words, "Kinder" and "Kanal". This case is analogous to FedEx, which I certainly hope no one has proposed moving to Fedex. Note also that MOS:TM specifically allows for this: "Trademarks in CamelCase are a judgment call. CamelCase may be used where it reflects general usage and makes the trademark more readable." Since MOS:TM is explicitly neutral on whether it should be "Kika" or "KiKa", editors who oppose the latter should offer convincing arguments rather than simply appealing to policy. Powers ^T 14:55, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It is true that WP:MOSTM permits editors' discretion for camel case, but it circumscribes that provision tightly:

Trademarks in CamelCase are a judgment call. CamelCase may be used where it reflects general usage and makes the trademark more readable.

Well, is the name of the entity in question here a camelcased trademark? If it is, then we may use discretion. We can do that right here. The usage of the entity itself is all mixed up, with this "KiKA" form. Why the capital "A"? The default provision at MOSTM is this:

Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules, even if the trademark owner considers nonstandard formatting "official".

I have concerns about details in MOSTM, and its application in titling. Refinements and clarifications are needed. But it has been normal to invoke it and interpret in this general way.

Noetica^Tea? 01:59, 26 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, but so long as MOS:TM allows CamelCase trademarks like FedEx, I see no reason not to use it here, as we decided (by consensus) above. Powers ^T 17:53, 26 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

But you miss my point. It has not been shown that there is such a trademark in this instance, that uses camel case. That is not the usage in the channel's own material, is it? Not its consistent usage, certainly. Noetica^Tea? 19:29, 26 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, their preferred formatting is "KiKA", but I don't see how that prohibits us from using CamelCase. If FedEx decided to capitalize the X in their logo, we wouldn't decide "well, it's not an acronym anymore, so we'll render it "Fedex". The "KA" still stands for "Kanal" so "KiKa" is a perfectly acceptable way to render the Powers ^T 14:30, 27 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As I have said, the current guidelines leave some things uncertain. But the overall presumption is for standard case styling. An exception, allowing discretion, is mentioned for trademarks that actually use camel case; but no such exception is made for anything styled like "KiKA" out there in the world. No guideline recommends imposing camel case, where it is not already adopted in the relevant source. Therefore, the overall presumption is not overridden; therefore, following existing style guidelines would require that we use the style "Kika", here.Noetica^Tea? 01:00, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How many sources using "KiKa" would be necessary to convince you? Powers ^T 02:03, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

To convince me of what? Is there, or is there not, a trademark in use by the entity dealt with in this article with the styling "KiKa"? If so, then MOSTM determines what we might do about that. Otherwise, it does not. Noetica^Tea? 06:28, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As the title is from the German 'Kinder' and 'Kanal'; they are both nouns and thus are capitalised when written in normal situations of use. -- [[ axg ◉ talk ]] 18:39, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose proposed move, Support Kika (television station) – We don't need to follow German language conventions on the English WP. And the argument for CamelCase is undermined by the all the variant capitalizations advanced, in my estimation. ENeville (talk) 18:28, 26 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Advanced by whom? And this has nothing to do with German language conventions; "FedEx" does the same thing and it's English. Powers ^T 14:30, 27 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Comment: KiKa can refer to a Dutch foundation. --84.61.181.19 (talk) 08:04, 1 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Old Mascot

Kika's Mascot used to be a Rabbit. And, it used to Air Mama Mirabelle (2007-2015), Jonalu, and Jakers! The Adventures of Piggley Winks. Snuggleblanket (talk) 11:11, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Requested move 20 June 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Kika (TV channel) (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 16:38, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

KiKA → Kika (television channel) – Unnecessary stylisation, worthy of a mention in the article but not fit for the title. No consistently used spelling method is in place: Kika and KiKa are both common variations and are used by media outlets ([1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13]). The official stylistic choice has also been subject to change over the years, i.e. when KI.KA turned into the current KiKA. Per MOS:TMRULES, the best and least conflicting way to approach this would be using sentence case. Agwjkl (talk) 16:21, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 12:47, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as Kika (TV channel) to conform with standard practice. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sammi Brie Sorry for bothering you (but always find it better to ask) and also for my lack of knowledge on the page renaming process, should I change it to "(TV channel)" on the requested move now to conform with said practice or would that be unnecessary and/or reset this discussion? I'd propose that instead of "(television channel)". Agwjkl (talk) 20:08, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Agwjkl Probably best to leave the RM be, especially as someone has already !voted. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 20:43, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.